水產動物腸道健康及魚粉替代@諾偉司水產事業部在線交流（1樓提供課件下載）

水寶寶

kanhai 發表于 2013-1-18 21:03
能談談如何保護養殖對蝦腸道的健康避免腸炎的發生
對蝦育苗過程中，又該如何來預防提高成活率

Gut health and survival is the biggest challange in shrimp culture today, the challanges are from bacterial and many due to the impact of feed ingredients. For bacterial challanges what in successful countries are doing is managing by using Gut Environment Modifiers whihc can be AFG (organic acids) and NE150 (essential oils). these products protect the animals against pathogenic bacteria, improve the digestibility of the feed, improve the FCR, improve growth and suvival. In terms of feed ingredients I think its high time to look for alternative proteins and move away from the fundamental approach of high fish meal diets and balance the feed with limited amino acids such as methionine and moving from inorganic minerals to chelated minerals. Many times also it has been seen when we shift to plant proteins from animal proteins we add to the gut problems because the plant proteins have high anti nutritional factors, mycotoxins and low digestibility, so in order to have the best nutrition available its not only balancing at protein levels but on all factors as mentioned earlier and adding functional additives such as antioxidant to prevent oxidantion of the feed, mycotoxin binders and attractants.

水寶寶

魚體偏肥是否和長期使用膨化料有一定關系？

Piet：With extruded feeds, we are using often using higher energy in the feed. There is a relation between the digestible protein/digestible energy ratio and fat fish. too much digestible energy and not enough digestible protein will affect the fish shape negatively.

水寶寶

天涯游蝦 發表于 2013-1-22 16:38
看看這幾條蝦，中間的兩條我認為是營養不良導致的，主要癥狀就是甲殼薄，易死亡，各位有啥看法，謝謝了

Nayak:
Japonicus and Monodon have a habit of going to the bottom of the pond as compared to the white shrimps whihc stay in the water column, these differences in color of the shrimp and the soft shell to a large extent is due to bad pond bottom with high ammonia and hydrogen sulphide. Corrective measures is use of probiotics and remove of sludge or bottom water exchange.Make sure the alkanity and the pH is also optimum and the DO early morning is sufficient.Avoid over feeding and control FCR, right source of minerals for the animals is also essential to vaoid blue shrimps and soft shell so farmer should ask feed mills to use chelated minerals.

XXT

好像是授課，不是交流？

水寶寶

水寶寶 發表于 2013-1-22 17:33
Nayak:
Japonicus and Monodon have a habit of going to the bottom of the pond as compared to the w ...

Auto feeder is the latest technology in optimizing feeding and use of minimum labor which is become expensive. By this model we avoid over feeding which can be human error as well as continued feeding avoids leaching of many nutrients from the feed as it is eaten immedeately the  moment feed is injected into the pond.Standardizing is an important step in auto feeder and then only get good FCR. In Thailand people have achieved FCR to the tune of 1.1 - 1.2 in shrimps with high stocking density of 100 to 150 pcs per sq.m

陶青燕

鳊魚的粘液問題：
現實中很多鳊魚在捕撈起來時沒有粘液、掉鱗，請問陶博士有什么辦法來解決？
鳊魚黏液的問題首先肯定是肝臟的問題,目前國內鳊魚的高脂肪已經超過了這個品種的最適需要量.如果要追求生長速度,能量降下來的可能性很小,所以首先是要提供高品質的油脂,避免氧化油脂及霉菌毒素對肝臟的損傷.另外,即使使用特別優質的原料,肝臟損傷對于這種品種也是風險很高的.因為高脂肪日糧本身會導致自由基的大量產生,如果機體不能消除這些自由基,損傷是在所難免的.有大量研究表明,高脂日糧會導致大量器官的損傷,其中肝臟自由基的數量會上升4倍左右.這也是為什么大家特別是養殖戶使用一定的vc會有一定的效果。但這不是最經濟有效的辦法，諾偉司的體內抗氧化劑專門針對體內自由基，是更專業經濟有效的辦法。

syusuke

水寶寶

蝦兵魚將 發表于 2013-1-21 13:12
蝦料公司生產過程中都會添加一定量的蝦殼粉，用來促進對蝦蛻殼，但是市場上蝦殼粉的質量和數量很難保證，不 ...

Piet Verstaete: With extruded feeds, we are using higher energy, higher energy can bring some nutritional stress if overfeeding occurs (liver problems) or if the formula is not balanced (amino acids, vitamins, minerals, etc..). Also in extruded feeds we are often using more oil in coating and the oxidation of the oil can induce stress. Too much carbhydrate will also cause liver problems and fish stop feeding. Also, feeding higher energy feeds uses more oxygen for digestion.On the farm side: More checks on oxygen levels on the feeds are needed when feeding higher energy diets. So the time of feeding and the ration size should be managed better with extruded feeds compared with pelleted (lower energy feeds).On the feed size: extrududed feeds should be well balanced and if a lot of oil is coated, the oil shoudl be fresh band treated with anti-oxidants. It is also wise to increase the levels of vitamin E and vitamin E to reduce the stress of the fish and some phospholipid, choline and inositol to protect the liver.

XXT

請問：海水育苗料，用膨化機生產浮料0.5、0.8規格是否可行？具體操作要注意哪些？國外海水苗料是如何生產提供的？

first薏

不錯，是個創新來的。

syusuke

syusuke

水寶寶

nothing 發表于 2013-1-22 16:04
現在資源的匱乏，如傳統配方中的，肝臟粉，魚油，魚粉等含量方面和很多年前的指標差別大了。
那么對于對蝦 ...

Piet Verstaete: an alternative of controlled quality, but more expensive is krill meal. Alternatives to krill meal to improve moulting is to increase phospholipid levels, cholesterol levels and/or add bile salts.

Piet Verstaete: Cholesterol is less an less used because of its high price, generally we try to improve the cholesterol available from ingredients by using emulsifiers and increasing phospholipid levels.

陶青燕

魚粉的替代問題是一個綜合性較強的技術問題，現在也沒有一個可以執行的標準，更多的是靠經驗來使用。請問是否可以將魚粉與豆粕的替代比例化，如：一份魚粉=幾份豆粕（補充缺乏的氨基酸），這樣在原料的價值運用上就可以通過價格運算來評價原料價值，謝謝

市場傳太高魚粉替代的成果不錯，那請他們比較系統詳細介紹一下魚粉替代情況

這兩個問題放在一起來交流，因為這實際上是同一個問題。關于魚粉替代其中國一直有自己的思路，那就是原料的替代，這種原料間的替代關系為我們在有限的原料品種內尋找最優的組合提供了幫助，這種方式充分利用了原料間營養素的互補平衡。是原料的平衡。但不但是Skretting,Ewos等企業更看重的是營養素的平衡而不是原料間的替代關系。所以這些平衡包括基礎層面的氨基酸平衡，礦物元素平衡以及能量蛋白平衡。我們大家對氨基酸的使用還有很多的顧慮，其實更多的是氨基酸使用的技術還沒有完全掌握，大量的替代魚粉必須依賴氨基酸的補充，需要多少補充多少。此外魚粉替代后所帶來的綜合問題包括腸炎等都必需同時考慮，所以數量營養與功能營養必須同時進行，否則替代是不會成功的。泰高依賴自己的腸道健康平臺打造了微平衡的核心技術。這些技術針對三文魚魚粉替代出現的問題進行了大量的研究，比如豆粕誘導的腸炎，低魚粉下的白內障，心臟疾病等。我們如果簡單考慮營養素的平衡，而沒有功能營養的保障這種替代是很難有效的，特別是高替代量的情況下。

水寶寶

快樂的魚 發表于 2013-1-21 14:00
請諾偉司談談高檔肉食性魚（大口鲇、黃顙魚等）飼料中如何進行魚粉的替代？最少魚粉用在多少？還有晶體氨基 ...

外源AA的的平衡在國外已經相當成熟，當然，魚粉的替代，MET的平衡僅僅是眾多營養素平補充和平衡第一位的，我們還會考慮，魚粉替代后對誘食的影響，PUFA的影響，鹽分的影響，微量元素，P等等，除了從營養量的角度與平衡外，我們還須在功能性營養的方面加以考慮。諾偉司蛋氨酸由于特殊的分子結構使其能在機體內生理緩釋，而具有優秀的蛋氨酸效價外，由于分子結構不同，同時具有酸化劑功能，和優良的誘食功能。

水寶寶

快樂的魚 發表于 2013-1-21 14:00
請諾偉司談談高檔肉食性魚（大口鲇、黃顙魚等）飼料中如何進行魚粉的替代？最少魚粉用在多少？還有晶體氨基 ...

外源AA的的平衡在國外已經相當成熟，當然，魚粉的替代，MET的平衡僅僅是眾多營養素平補充和平衡第一位的，我們還會考慮，魚粉替代后對誘食的影響，PUFA的影響，鹽分的影響，微量元素，P等等，除了從營養量的角度與平衡外，我們還須在功能性營養的方面加以考慮。諾偉司蛋氨酸由于特殊的分子結構使其能在機體內生理緩釋，而具有優秀的蛋氨酸效價外，由于分子結構不同，同時具有酸化劑功能，和優良的誘食功能。

水寶寶

因為時間關系，我們的交流先到這里，還有很多沒有回答的問題，Nayak、Piet以及諾偉司全球的水產技術專家將會在稍后的時間一一為我們解答，諾偉司也歡迎大家繼續提問，他們將繼續與各位論壇的朋友交流探討。

感謝幾位嘉賓一個下午認真的解答，感謝！

九天飛龍

堅持基本的技術理念很重要,做技術的不要被市場競爭被動的牽著鼻子走,諾偉司這次的對話確實象那位同仁說的象講課,但是基礎理論扎實,反過來讓我們看到了可以應用的深度

夜之哀傷

還沒翻譯出來？{:soso_e100:}

lq03112

感謝各位大牛的精彩解答，受益良多。最后提一個問題：請問氨基酸平衡技術在商業配方中應用需要注意哪些具體問題？