水產(chǎn)動(dòng)物腸道健康及魚粉替代@諾偉司水產(chǎn)事業(yè)部在線交流（1樓提供課件下載）

水寶寶

kanhai 發(fā)表于 2013-1-18 21:03
能談?wù)勅绾伪Ｗo(hù)養(yǎng)殖對(duì)蝦腸道的健康避免腸炎的發(fā)生
對(duì)蝦育苗過(guò)程中，又該如何來(lái)預(yù)防提高成活率

Gut health and survival is the biggest challange in shrimp culture today, the challanges are from bacterial and many due to the impact of feed ingredients. For bacterial challanges what in successful countries are doing is managing by using Gut Environment Modifiers whihc can be AFG (organic acids) and NE150 (essential oils). these products protect the animals against pathogenic bacteria, improve the digestibility of the feed, improve the FCR, improve growth and suvival. In terms of feed ingredients I think its high time to look for alternative proteins and move away from the fundamental approach of high fish meal diets and balance the feed with limited amino acids such as methionine and moving from inorganic minerals to chelated minerals. Many times also it has been seen when we shift to plant proteins from animal proteins we add to the gut problems because the plant proteins have high anti nutritional factors, mycotoxins and low digestibility, so in order to have the best nutrition available its not only balancing at protein levels but on all factors as mentioned earlier and adding functional additives such as antioxidant to prevent oxidantion of the feed, mycotoxin binders and attractants.

水寶寶

魚體偏肥是否和長(zhǎng)期使用膨化料有一定關(guān)系？

Piet：With extruded feeds, we are using often using higher energy in the feed. There is a relation between the digestible protein/digestible energy ratio and fat fish. too much digestible energy and not enough digestible protein will affect the fish shape negatively.

水寶寶

天涯游蝦 發(fā)表于 2013-1-22 16:38
看看這幾條蝦，中間的兩條我認(rèn)為是營(yíng)養(yǎng)不良導(dǎo)致的，主要癥狀就是甲殼薄，易死亡，各位有啥看法，謝謝了

Nayak:
Japonicus and Monodon have a habit of going to the bottom of the pond as compared to the white shrimps whihc stay in the water column, these differences in color of the shrimp and the soft shell to a large extent is due to bad pond bottom with high ammonia and hydrogen sulphide. Corrective measures is use of probiotics and remove of sludge or bottom water exchange.Make sure the alkanity and the pH is also optimum and the DO early morning is sufficient.Avoid over feeding and control FCR, right source of minerals for the animals is also essential to vaoid blue shrimps and soft shell so farmer should ask feed mills to use chelated minerals.

XXT

好像是授課，不是交流？

水寶寶

水寶寶 發(fā)表于 2013-1-22 17:33
Nayak:
Japonicus and Monodon have a habit of going to the bottom of the pond as compared to the w ...

Auto feeder is the latest technology in optimizing feeding and use of minimum labor which is become expensive. By this model we avoid over feeding which can be human error as well as continued feeding avoids leaching of many nutrients from the feed as it is eaten immedeately the  moment feed is injected into the pond.Standardizing is an important step in auto feeder and then only get good FCR. In Thailand people have achieved FCR to the tune of 1.1 - 1.2 in shrimps with high stocking density of 100 to 150 pcs per sq.m

陶青燕

鳊魚的粘液?jiǎn)栴}：
現(xiàn)實(shí)中很多鳊魚在捕撈起來(lái)時(shí)沒(méi)有粘液、掉鱗，請(qǐng)問(wèn)陶博士有什么辦法來(lái)解決？
鳊魚黏液的問(wèn)題首先肯定是肝臟的問(wèn)題,目前國(guó)內(nèi)鳊魚的高脂肪已經(jīng)超過(guò)了這個(gè)品種的最適需要量.如果要追求生長(zhǎng)速度,能量降下來(lái)的可能性很小,所以首先是要提供高品質(zhì)的油脂,避免氧化油脂及霉菌毒素對(duì)肝臟的損傷.另外,即使使用特別優(yōu)質(zhì)的原料,肝臟損傷對(duì)于這種品種也是風(fēng)險(xiǎn)很高的.因?yàn)楦咧�肪日糧本身會(huì)導(dǎo)致自由基的大量產(chǎn)生,如果機(jī)體不能消除這些自由基,損傷是在所難免的.有大量研究表明,高脂日糧會(huì)導(dǎo)致大量器官的損傷,其中肝臟自由基的數(shù)量會(huì)上升4倍左右.這也是為什么大家特別是養(yǎng)殖戶使用一定的vc會(huì)有一定的效果。但這不是最經(jīng)濟(jì)有效的辦法，諾偉司的體內(nèi)抗氧化劑專門針對(duì)體內(nèi)自由基，是更專業(yè)經(jīng)濟(jì)有效的辦法。

syusuke

水寶寶

蝦兵魚將 發(fā)表于 2013-1-21 13:12
蝦料公司生產(chǎn)過(guò)程中都會(huì)添加一定量的蝦殼粉，用來(lái)促進(jìn)對(duì)蝦蛻殼，但是市場(chǎng)上蝦殼粉的質(zhì)量和數(shù)量很難保證，不 ...

Piet Verstaete: With extruded feeds, we are using higher energy, higher energy can bring some nutritional stress if overfeeding occurs (liver problems) or if the formula is not balanced (amino acids, vitamins, minerals, etc..). Also in extruded feeds we are often using more oil in coating and the oxidation of the oil can induce stress. Too much carbhydrate will also cause liver problems and fish stop feeding. Also, feeding higher energy feeds uses more oxygen for digestion.On the farm side: More checks on oxygen levels on the feeds are needed when feeding higher energy diets. So the time of feeding and the ration size should be managed better with extruded feeds compared with pelleted (lower energy feeds).On the feed size: extrududed feeds should be well balanced and if a lot of oil is coated, the oil shoudl be fresh band treated with anti-oxidants. It is also wise to increase the levels of vitamin E and vitamin E to reduce the stress of the fish and some phospholipid, choline and inositol to protect the liver.

XXT

請(qǐng)問(wèn)：海水育苗料，用膨化機(jī)生產(chǎn)浮料0.5、0.8規(guī)格是否可行？具體操作要注意哪些？國(guó)外海水苗料是如何生產(chǎn)提供的？

first薏

不錯(cuò)，是個(gè)創(chuàng)新來(lái)的。

syusuke

syusuke

水寶寶

nothing 發(fā)表于 2013-1-22 16:04
現(xiàn)在資源的匱乏，如傳統(tǒng)配方中的，肝臟粉，魚油，魚粉等含量方面和很多年前的指標(biāo)差別大了。
那么對(duì)于對(duì)蝦 ...

Piet Verstaete: an alternative of controlled quality, but more expensive is krill meal. Alternatives to krill meal to improve moulting is to increase phospholipid levels, cholesterol levels and/or add bile salts.

Piet Verstaete: Cholesterol is less an less used because of its high price, generally we try to improve the cholesterol available from ingredients by using emulsifiers and increasing phospholipid levels.

陶青燕

魚粉的替代問(wèn)題是一個(gè)綜合性較強(qiáng)的技術(shù)問(wèn)題，現(xiàn)在也沒(méi)有一個(gè)可以執(zhí)行的標(biāo)準(zhǔn)，更多的是靠經(jīng)驗(yàn)來(lái)使用。請(qǐng)問(wèn)是否可以將魚粉與豆粕的替代比例化，如：一份魚粉=幾份豆粕（補(bǔ)充缺乏的氨基酸），這樣在原料的價(jià)值運(yùn)用上就可以通過(guò)價(jià)格運(yùn)算來(lái)評(píng)價(jià)原料價(jià)值，謝謝

市場(chǎng)傳太高魚粉替代的成果不錯(cuò)，那請(qǐng)他們比較系統(tǒng)詳細(xì)介紹一下魚粉替代情況

這兩個(gè)問(wèn)題放在一起來(lái)交流，因?yàn)檫@實(shí)際上是同一個(gè)問(wèn)題。關(guān)于魚粉替代其中國(guó)一直有自己的思路，那就是原料的替代，這種原料間的替代關(guān)系為我們?cè)谟邢薜脑�料品種內(nèi)尋找最優(yōu)的組合提供了幫助，這種方式充分利用了原料間營(yíng)養(yǎng)素的互補(bǔ)平衡。是原料的平衡。但不但是Skretting,Ewos等企業(yè)更看重的是營(yíng)養(yǎng)素的平衡而不是原料間的替代關(guān)系。所以這些平衡包括基礎(chǔ)層面的氨基酸平衡，礦物元素平衡以及能量蛋白平衡。我們大家對(duì)氨基酸的使用還有很多的顧慮，其實(shí)更多的是氨基酸使用的技術(shù)還沒(méi)有完全掌握，大量的替代魚粉必須依賴氨基酸的補(bǔ)充，需要多少補(bǔ)充多少。此外魚粉替代后所帶來(lái)的綜合問(wèn)題包括腸炎等都必需同時(shí)考慮，所以數(shù)量營(yíng)養(yǎng)與功能營(yíng)養(yǎng)必須同時(shí)進(jìn)行，否則替代是不會(huì)成功的。泰高依賴自己的腸道健康平臺(tái)打造了微平衡的核心技術(shù)。這些技術(shù)針對(duì)三文魚魚粉替代出現(xiàn)的問(wèn)題進(jìn)行了大量的研究，比如豆粕誘導(dǎo)的腸炎，低魚粉下的白內(nèi)障，心臟疾病等。我們?nèi)绻��?jiǎn)單考慮營(yíng)養(yǎng)素的平衡，而沒(méi)有功能營(yíng)養(yǎng)的保障這種替代是很難有效的，特別是高替代量的情況下。

水寶寶

快樂(lè)的魚 發(fā)表于 2013-1-21 14:00
請(qǐng)諾偉司談?wù)劯邫n肉食性魚（大口鲇、黃顙魚等）飼料中如何進(jìn)行魚粉的替代？最少魚粉用在多少？還有晶體氨基 ...

外源AA的的平衡在國(guó)外已經(jīng)相當(dāng)成熟，當(dāng)然，魚粉的替代，MET的平衡僅僅是眾多營(yíng)養(yǎng)素平補(bǔ)充和平衡第一位的，我們還會(huì)考慮，魚粉替代后對(duì)誘食的影響，PUFA的影響，鹽分的影響，微量元素，P等等，除了從營(yíng)養(yǎng)量的角度與平衡外，我們還須在功能性營(yíng)養(yǎng)的方面加以考慮。諾偉司蛋氨酸由于特殊的分子結(jié)構(gòu)使其能在機(jī)體內(nèi)生理緩釋，而具有優(yōu)秀的蛋氨酸效價(jià)外，由于分子結(jié)構(gòu)不同，同時(shí)具有酸化劑功能，和優(yōu)良的誘食功能。

水寶寶

快樂(lè)的魚 發(fā)表于 2013-1-21 14:00
請(qǐng)諾偉司談?wù)劯邫n肉食性魚（大口鲇、黃顙魚等）飼料中如何進(jìn)行魚粉的替代？最少魚粉用在多少？還有晶體氨基 ...

外源AA的的平衡在國(guó)外已經(jīng)相當(dāng)成熟，當(dāng)然，魚粉的替代，MET的平衡僅僅是眾多營(yíng)養(yǎng)素平補(bǔ)充和平衡第一位的，我們還會(huì)考慮，魚粉替代后對(duì)誘食的影響，PUFA的影響，鹽分的影響，微量元素，P等等，除了從營(yíng)養(yǎng)量的角度與平衡外，我們還須在功能性營(yíng)養(yǎng)的方面加以考慮。諾偉司蛋氨酸由于特殊的分子結(jié)構(gòu)使其能在機(jī)體內(nèi)生理緩釋，而具有優(yōu)秀的蛋氨酸效價(jià)外，由于分子結(jié)構(gòu)不同，同時(shí)具有酸化劑功能，和優(yōu)良的誘食功能。

水寶寶

因?yàn)闀r(shí)間關(guān)系，我們的交流先到這里，還有很多沒(méi)有回答的問(wèn)題，Nayak、Piet以及諾偉司全球的水產(chǎn)技術(shù)專家將會(huì)在稍后的時(shí)間一一為我們解答，諾偉司也歡迎大家繼續(xù)提問(wèn)，他們將繼續(xù)與各位論壇的朋友交流探討。

感謝幾位嘉賓一個(gè)下午認(rèn)真的解答，感謝！

九天飛龍

堅(jiān)持基本的技術(shù)理念很重要,做技術(shù)的不要被市場(chǎng)競(jìng)爭(zhēng)被動(dòng)的牽著鼻子走,諾偉司這次的對(duì)話確實(shí)象那位同仁說(shuō)的象講課,但是基礎(chǔ)理論扎實(shí),反過(guò)來(lái)讓我們看到了可以應(yīng)用的深度

夜之哀傷

還沒(méi)翻譯出來(lái)？{:soso_e100:}

lq03112

感謝各位大牛的精彩解答，受益良多。最后提一個(gè)問(wèn)題：請(qǐng)問(wèn)氨基酸平衡技術(shù)在商業(yè)配方中應(yīng)用需要注意哪些具體問(wèn)題？